Charging question

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Kens T	Charging question		Lead	[-]
Posts: 180 11/10/05 6:35 AM Road Captain	Tags : None Ok, Ive read a few previous posts about the charging system. I'm going to ask a question i think i allready know the answer to. Well here goes............. OK - I took 30 mile ride through town and stopped to snack. After snack the bike didn't turn over. It tried a couple of times but wouldnt turn over. The battery finally click, click, clicked. Pushed and dumped clutch to fire it up. the bike road fine on the way home. I checked the voltage at the battery after a few hrs of trickle charging. I noticed that at idle it ran 13.8 v and when i gave it gas it dropped to 13.2. Does this sound like a stator and rectifier issue about to happen? I checked it all again two days later with the exact same readings. Why does it drop instead of increase??? Anyone have an explaination? I'm a bit nervous to go on my trip this weekend. Kens T
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CleRider	Re: Charging question	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1908 11/10/05 8:26 PM	Ken, While I'm not an electrical engineer, it would seem to me the difference between 13.8 and 13.2 is not siginificant enough to worry about. If you're getting 12-14vdc from your charging system, both the stator and rectifier are working. The stators job is to generate electricity. In this case it's generating 13-14 vac. The rectifer is a diode pack that converts AC to DC current, basically the same thing the trickle charger does. If you're getting a few clicks from the battery I would suspect the battery is no longer capable of holding a charge (which varies with temperature and age), the contacts are not solid (check the terminal screws, make sure they are tight) and check for corrosion at the connectors and within the cables. Andy
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Fredrider	Re: Charging question	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6121 11/10/05 9:00 PM	Ken, I am not an electrical engineer either, but I have had some charging problems with my T. Before replacing the rectifier, the system voltage was 13.4V at idle and 12.6V at higher engine speeds. After replacing the rectifier the battery voltage was 13.9V at idle and 13.5V at 3500 rpm. According to Honda's VT1100T Service Manual, there should be a higher voltage at higher engine speeds. As Andy said, as long as the battery voltage is over 13V at all engine speeds, charging will be possible. At voltages less than 13V, at any engine speed, I have had problems with discharging the battery when it is supposed to be charging. Fred
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Dooley the Clown	Charging question	#3	[url]	[-]
HSATF Tail Gunner Posts: 61 03/22/06 12:50 AM Road Captain	This seems like a good place to ask a question. I am sure this has been discussed before but I haven't located it yet. Is there anything available to get more charge to the battery? If my T doesn't crank on the first try I might get a second chance, but won't get a third. I have a Cobra light bar, a GPS unit, and a J&M CB radio. However I don't run the CB or GPS all the time. Both of them are switched and draw only a small amount of amperage. Dooley the Clown
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bamaTrider	Re: Charging question	#4	[url]	[-]
HSATF 1st Officer Posts: 3867 03/22/06 3:59 AM	I have a question for your question. Does your lightbar switch off while starting, or does it stay on full power. I had another forum member say that if you run a seperate fused hot wire from the battery to a relay switch, but use the hot lead from your headlight circuit to switch the relay on, then your lightbar will go off the same as your headlight while starting. This will leave more amps for the starter to operate with. This is how I had planned to wire my lights anyway, but I did not realize that it would also turn off the lightbar with the headlight while starting. Anyone else know this for sure? Stan 1999 Ace Tourer (Silver over Black) 2000 Ace Tourer (Black & Chrome) 2000 Suzuki Marauder VZ800 (Custom)
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alans 98t	Re: Charging question	#5	[url]	[-]
HSATF Road Captain Posts: 359 04/01/06 4:48 AM Second Officer	This spring my T didn't want to crank, even though it stays on a Trickle. Jumped it, road it, came home and checked it. 12v idling, 13.4v revved. Turned if of. 12v. Cranked it over and it dropped below 7v. Pulled the battery and found it dry. It was a new battery 3 years and 45,000 miles ago and I usually add water to top it off. This time I added fresh electrolite ($5 at Murrays). It only took 10 minutes on the Trickle for the green light. Fresh was 13.8v and cranking it dropped just below 12v. Keeping the battery on the Tricklecharger and regular maintenance the stock batter could see over 60,000 miles.
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TOADRIDER	Re: Charging question	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 58 06/22/06 7:11 AM Tail Gunner	I can advise as to my results after I reassemble this weekend. I am just replacing MY stator. 1 of the three legs was intermittently weak, and at higher RPM's would not charge enough. I am going to add a relay to my light bar to decrease load at start-up. I am also wiring in a voltage reducer that supposedly will lower the amperage draw from the driving lights while still maintaining 75 percent of their output. All to hopefully prevent a repeat failure of a $237.00 stator! Jeff T
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Fredrider	Re: Charging question	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6121 06/22/06 12:55 PM	Jeff, did you get a Honda replacement stator? Whom did you buy yours from? I read with great interest because I will probably replace my stator this summer. I already have a switch on my Cobra lightbar but rarely turn off the lightbar when I start my T. Perhaps it's time I did. Please let me know of any difficult portions of the replacement or anything I should be watching out for. Thanks. Fred
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TOADRIDER	Re: Charging question	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 58 06/23/06 5:09 AM Tail Gunner	I WAS real tired last night, as I did a poor job of trying to answer Bama's & Dooleys' question. The relay wiring should work as you were told, and since that is the way I am wiring I will re-post if this is not true. The voltage reduction "gizmo" I bought was to attempt to lesson the load from my driving lights, especially when I am plugged in with my heated vest and gloves. This is my attempt at "more power", since my search for a higher output stator was fruitless. Hi Fred. Yes, I bought OEM parts. Once I found decent prices, there wasn't enough of a difference for me to bother with aftermarket parts. The stator ran me $237.45, regulator was $46.46 at servicehonda.com. The repair is simple, BUT not as simple as the factory manual shows. There is a cover that bolts onto the rear portion of the engine casing. The gears there are not a bother, but the gasket that I did not know was there (that I was forced to make) I would have bought. There is another cover below that, that contains the clutch bellcrank. It is sealed off with an o-ring. Since you have twice my mileage, I would replace it " just in case". I didn't know that one was there either, but luckily it wasn't hard or flat. Jeff T
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Fredrider	Re: Charging question	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6121 06/23/06 6:40 PM	Thanks for the tips about the gaskets, Jeff, and also about where to get a new stator for a relatively reasonable price. Fred
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pacman607	Re: Charging question	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 114 08/06/06 6:45 AM	Just thought I'd pass along something I just learned...Been having trouble myself. Everything checked out ok by the service manual flow chart (stator ohmed ok) so I changed the reg. like it said. Battery still wouldn't charge. Talked to the service dept. at my dealers today. They told me to check the stator output. Said it should be around 60-65 volts AC on each leg. Set the meter to check AC volts, uplug the stator from the reg. and start the bike. Put the + lead on the stator side and the - lead on the reg. side. I had 50 volts on two legs and almost nothing on the third. Guess I'll change it myself............Pacman
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Fredrider	Re: Charging question	#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6121 08/06/06 1:08 PM	Pacman, mine is not as bad as yours. Two years ago, at 3500 rpm I had 56, 60 & 64 Vac on the three phases. Three weeks ago I had 50, 61 & 66 Vac respectively. In my case, although all three phases are working and marginally charging the battery, the phase with the lower voltage is drawing more current. It is drawing enough more current to char a couple of the stator terminals and white plastic connector. Two years ago it also caused my voltage regulator/rectifier to only charge at an idle. At all other speeds it was discharging the battery. I probably will order another stator in the next day or two. FYI, Ron Ayers has them for 31% and 34% less than Bike Bandit and Power Sports Pro. Fred
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pacman607	Re: Charging question	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 114 08/13/06 10:27 PM	Fred, I noticed a year or so ago that the white connector from the stator looked burnt some. Cleaned the contacts and put it back together. When I started having charging problems, I checked the connector and it looked almomst melted and one of the wires was corroded green. So I cut the connector on both ends and soldered the wires. Thought my problem was fixed. NOT! Anyway, I ordered the stator Tues. from Service Honda ($253 with shipping) and got it Fri.. Got the gaskets from the local Honda dealer. As luck would have it the aternator went out on my son's car Fri. and spent yesterday putting one on for him. I did at least get the stator off the bike today. Was a piece of cake. Should be back on the road by next week sometime.............Pacman If anyone's interested in part numbers: Stator----31120-MAH-005 Starter cover gasket---11365-MM8-881 Left cover gasket-------11395-MAH-000
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Fredrider	Re: Charging question	#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6121 08/15/06 1:12 PM	Pacman, after you soldered the wires, what happened then? Was there more corrosion or did the insulation melt off? I am glad to hear it is an easy job. Thanks for the part numbers. I need to order mine today. Fred
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ngmcbiker	Re: Charging question	#14	[url]	[-]
HSATF Tail Gunner Posts: 140 08/16/06 6:39 PM	OK all, I am new member but have been through this whole charging problem for 3 years with my T. It is the stator folks!! Forget all the advice and the manual regarding the regulator and battery. The Honda stock stators are lousy!! I just replaced with a Electrosport aftermarket stator (buy the one shown for VT1100C2 it is identical part for VT100T) from BikeBandit.com (same one available from Dennis Kirk online as well). As it turns out I now have 3 perfectly working regulators and a 2 year old battery that is also just fine. It was the stator the entire time. The service manual does not give good detail on how to evaluate. What I found is the best way to see if the stator is working is to take voltage measurements on the bike when it is running at the stator output (3 yellow wires) and compare to each other. And by the way, the voltage should be higher at revs than at idle, if it ain't there is trouble a brewin'. Steve
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Fredrider	Re: Charging question	#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6121 08/16/06 6:50 PM	Steve, How long have you had your Electrosport stator? I ask because the only other person I have heard that tried one had trouble in a very short time. It failed within months of installation and he had to go back to the Honda OEM stator. I agree with you the OEM stator is sub-par. Fred
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TOADRIDER	Re: Charging question	#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 58 08/21/06 7:32 AM Tail Gunner	In case anyone else has had the problem I had in deciphering the charging system diagnostics in the honda manual. I stumbled across a fault finding flow chart for motorcycle charging systems on ElectroSport Industries website. And keep in mind that if you have an intermittent issue like I did, you may need to perform more than one test. It wasn't until my 4th test that I recorded a bad reading. Fred, I also soldered together one of the stator leads. I suspect that by the time we find that burnt connector, that the damage has been done. My two cents, replace the stator and the voltage regulator together. Jeff T
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Fredrider	Re: Charging question	#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6121 08/21/06 12:25 PM	Jeff, replacing the stator and voltage regulator at the same time sounds like an excellent idea. I did replace my voltage regulator the last time I noticed my connectors were burnt. At that time my bike's charging system would only charge at an idle. It was strange to see that the regulator voltage would be less at 2000 rpm or any speed above 1300 rpm than at 1000 rpm and not only less, but less than battery voltage when the ignition was off. After replacing the voltage regulator my charging system charges at the same rate whether at idle or at a higher engine speed. It is still that way today. Because my regulator still behaves the same way it did when it was new I am hoping that after I replace the stator that: 1. the regulator is still good, 2. the charging system charges more at speeds above idle than it does at idle as the Honda Manual says that it should. If not I will try another regulator. I will know a few minutes after replacing the stator if that is true or not. Thanks for the suggestion Jeff. Fred
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Putz0999_nuked_for_import1175276112	Re: Charging question	#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1604 08/22/06 2:36 PM	It looks like I get to join the party. It looks like my alternator failed over the weekend. I was on a Patriot Guard ride to a funeral about 100 miles from home. About 250 round trip miles. Tell me what you think. I left home in pouring rain. It rained hard for about 50-60 miles, then changed to a intermittant light rain after that. There was about a foot of standing water under an overpass that I had to ride through. I stopped at a store where some of the other riders were gathering to ride the last 25 miles into the town. I shut the bike off and it just clicked when I tried to start it again. After getting about 5 minutes of charging from a car, I made it just 3 blocks short of the staging area. I got another jump from a friendly local and made it to the staging area and arranged to get it charged from a truck while we were parked. (I guess you know about the ribbing I got for having to push a Honda through a crowd of Harleys) I recharged it from a truck for about an hour and got about 75 miles before it was too drained to go any further. I got it charged at a battery shop and made it the remaining 50 miles to home. I measured the voltage at the battery. I get about 12.10 VDC at the battery at about 3000 rpm's. I removed the seat and pulled the wires out of the boot near the back of the fuel tank. I unplugged the connector with 3 yellow wires. With the bike running, I measured from the battery negative post and each lead on the female side of the plug. The volt meter was set for mA. I'll call them leads A, B, C. Lead At Idle A .005 mA B .005 mA C .001 mA Lead At 3000 RPM's A .060 - .069 mA B .060 - .067 mA C .005 - .019 mA Unless I'm mistaken, I think this indicates one faulty phase on the stator output. If it looks like I have made a mistake, jump in. The manual is not bad, it's about as clear as mud. Please toss out any ideas or suggestions. I don't know if the voltage regulator has been damaged. With one leg of the alternator failing, measuring the output is not going to give reliable readings. I may change out both. Thanks. Ride safe. Putz
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Fredrider	Re: Charging question	#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6121 08/22/06 6:55 PM	Putz, You would be safe changing both. I definitely agree that one of the three charging coils in your stator is shot. You cannot charge a battery at 12.1V! There is not enough data to tell if you rectifier/voltage regulator is shot too. Were any of the 3 terminals charred at the ends of those yellow stator wires? When I replaced my regulator a couple of years ago the new regulator had almost the same resistances forward and backward for all six diodes, but the new regulator allowed the charging system an incremental voltage over battery voltage at both idle and cruising speeds whereas the old regulator only would charge the battery at idle and not at cruising speeds. The bottom line is from the crude testing I was able to do I was not able to tell if the regulator was bad or not. Fred
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Fredrider	Re: Charging question	#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6121 08/23/06 3:02 AM	Fed Ex brought my new stator today. Looks to have 18 teeth, ~17 turns per tooth, each 3 coil is wound in series, ~ 6 x 17 = 102 turns per phase, 3 phases with a floating neutral. So far, except for the lack of charred terminals it does not appear any different than the one I have. The phase resistances are the same as the old one, i.e. ~ 0.4 ohms phase-to-phase. Hopefully when I install it it will have balanced phase voltages and balanced line currents. I have to work a half-day Sat., but should be able to get a start on it this weekend. Service Honda charged me a $3.53 parts deposit in addition to $10 shipping. It is still cheaper than anybody elses price, but it seems odd to have a charge that was not previously mentioned. Fred
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