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Skip MMShadowT |
#16 | |||
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Welcome back onehand. Good to see you on the board.
"We want to be free... Free to ride our machines without being hassled by the man!" |
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Fredrider |
#17 | |||
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Onehand, I am most interested to see how you theory works out long term. I have not checked my connecter recently, but will do so the next time I take the
seat off. I just do not trust that even though I have replaced the stator and the voltage regulator that the problem has gone away. If I take the seat off
and see discoloration of the connector I will be be
, but I
will also be expecting it. If we do find out the connector is a problem, mine will be gone as fast as possible. Please let me know how your charging system
is doing from time-to-time. Thanks.
Fred
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Onehand |
#18 | |||
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Hi Fredrider. I just got back from work . About a 4 mile ride. Checked the voltage on the battery and it shows 13. 5 volts. Not bad for a bike that
wouldn't charge a battery last october. I guess I should tell you that I live in Canada and its still cold here . About 50 for a high today. The bike sat
outside all day and it started easily. The other thing that I noticed is the cranking speed since I installed a Vance and Hines exhaust system. Its much
faster. I know that with the stock pipes the cranking speed would go down if I opened the throttle. Very strange unless you take off the stock pipes and see
the kind of restriction that they present to smooth and efficient air flow. I think the stock pipes are a problem for the starter and that causes its own set
of problems. Too much draw on the electrical system.
Still , its a great bike .With some help. |
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ngmcbiker |
#19 | |||
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OK, got to chime in on this one. First of all the Honda Manual not only sucks regarding diagnosing this issue, it lies. The manual says if voltage not high
enough at battery, then change the regulator/rectifier. Don't believe it. It tells you to check winding resistance to check the stator. Unless you have
extremely accurate ohmmeter this is very difficult to measure and does not really tell you anything, unless a winding is open or shorted.
The thing you must do is to check the output voltage at the yellow wires, wire to wire with the bike running at speed (in neutral of course unless you are really talented) and the stator disconnected at the three way connector. The exact reading is not that important and as the output is ac at an unknown frequency and will vary depending upon what type of voltmeter you are using (now if you have a scope!!!!). Likely will read 10v plus. The important thing is that the voltage be the same between all combinations of the wires (leg1 to leg2, leg1 to leg 3, and leg2 to leg3). If not the same, the stator is shot!!!! Plain and simple. Too bad it took me three years of dinking around to finally use some common sense. The stator is effectively a 3 phase generator connected in a delta configuration. There are effectively 3 coils each connected end to end (envision a triangle where each leg is a generator coil). Each of the yellow wires connects to one end of each of two coils, total three coils, hence 3 wires. The output is ac. The regulator/rectifier creates a crude dc output that should be well above 13/14 volts when the engine is 'at speed'. Now for the 'world according to Garp'. My opinion is that the most likely reason the connectors and wiring is burned is due to the stator failing. The burning is the symptom, not the problem. Here is how it appears to work. If one leg of the stator starts to go bad the current drawn from the other two legs increases, which causes overheating in the stator, the wiring and the connectors. And since none of it is oversized to begin with, you get burning. By the way, once burned replace them. My guess is that the number one cause of alternator failing is the battery, not other loads placed on the bike, in combination with a poorly manufactured stator. Yes I am certain you can overload it with stuff, but there are so many people with this problem it needs to be related to something that every T has. And number one load is likely the battery as it starts to go die. The stator at idle does not put out nearly enough oomph (technical term) to supply the bike as the voltage is speed dependent and at idle there ain't much. So, bike draws from the battery at idle and low speeds. Once the battery starts to go bad, the battery also draws constantly from the stator, thus putting an additional large burden on the stator, ie the entire bike at idle when voltage is low plus trying to charge the battery. And of course the regulator is trying to up the voltage by putting more burden on the stator. Friend of mine told me early on that i would need to replace the battery every two years because the batteries are too small to begin with. Had I been smart enough to listen to him, I would have saved myself a lot of hassle, time and money. By the way, my pretty new (blue no less) nonOEM stator is running just fine thank you, regardless of which of the 3 rectifier/regulators I use (even the two the manual said were bad). Was not difficult to install, if I had done it before it is like a couple of hours to do. I have light bar, radio, etc etc on it. Will be putting on heated grips and likely seat as well. Well anyway, you have now heard from someone who is a born again convert. If it is a Honda Shadow and the problem is electrical, replace the stator first!!! Wish I had. And sorry bout the length and tone of this. |
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eethumper |
#20 | |||
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I replaced the burnt connectors on the yellow wires because mine were melted together. I though maybe the connectors weren't making a good connection so I
replaced them with a different type connector. I replaced the connectors with some I had laying around the garage and not more then 4 months later the
connectors were just as bad. Based on my experience with electricity, I feel the connectors are not sized for generation of the stator. Now the reason I think
the connectors are undersized is because if you had a short in the stator or a short somewhere else your wire insulation would also be melted. If you notice
the only burned location on the yellow wires is at the connections. I just replaced the connectors again with a 30A 600V terminal strip from Radio shack hoping
my theory is correct. I will let you know if I am wrong.
Don't forget Voltage=current * resistance. As resistance goes up (due to heat) you loose current (to maintain a voltage, 13.5V). If your charging current drops, your battery will not get charged like it is supposed to. As the plugs increase in heat, the resistance keeps increasing and the current decreases. In order to get a true current reading you would have to measure the current through the wires as the plug is hot (melting plastic hot). I would rather but a higher ampacity connector on the wires to test it out. Hopefully the wire sizes are correct. |
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southside bob |
#21 | |||
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Hey There,Just to get this correct-when reading from the yellow stator plug I disconnected while bike is running -set my meter to AC and place the positive
lead on pin 1 and neg on pin 2 and 1&3 and 2&3 correct . If there close to the same or about 10 v I'll go for the volt reg I guess,Thanks for the
help
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Fredrider |
#22 | |||
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Bob,
They should not only be close to the same, but also stay close as they rise in value with speed.
Fred
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ngmcbiker |
#23 | |||
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Hi ya all. This is such a topic it is amazing. Sort of like, if you have a T you will have electrical issues.
OK, about the 'no leaks because I didn;'t get shocked. Well it is highly unlikely you will feel a shock at 12vdc. You genereally need to be above 24 to even consider such. Now as to leaks as the bike warms up, ........you betcha!! That is why the Honda manual measurement of winding resistance is such a misleading indicator of things wrong. Cold, lots of bad stuff looks good (sort of like beer). Hot, you find wires that are touching the frame that cold don't seem to be an issue, but warm will gnerate leakage. Also, sitting on the bike might compress cables routed under/around the seat area. There is lots of stuff to look for, and 12vdc makes it harder to find. Get the bike warm, turn it off and using a multimeter with a current measurement function, wire it is series with teh battery. Since the power is dc, direction matters. You need to be in series, so disconnect the black (ground, frame whatever you want to call it) and connect the black to the positive of the meter and the negative of the meter to teh negative terminal on the battery. There should be ZERO current flow with everything turned off. DO NOT do this with anyting turned on, you will blow the meter. (the reason to use the negative connection is because if you happen to touch the frame while doing this nothing bad happens. Now if you have lots of 30a fuses, use the positive terminal......) As to burned connectors, it appears to me the connector from the stator is a bit on the small side for the kind of current loads the bikes have with everything running. But currents shouldn't be high except during startup. So, the issue of starting once warm could be connector related. Sort of a Catch 22, the hotter the connector the higher the resistence. The higher the resistance the hotter the connector. All I know for sure is I changed the stator and all is well for now. But I DO expect the problem to return. And ElectroService seems to build a fine product and I would agree they have very good help guides. Steve |
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