I picked up a Dunlop E3 180/70HR16 off ebay for $142 and will try to have it mounted this weekend.
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ragtop69gs |
Dyna Beads ? |
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Anyone have any experience with using the beads to balance their tires instead of lead weights?
I picked up a Dunlop E3 180/70HR16 off ebay for $142 and will try to have it mounted this weekend.
Jay
Patriot Guard Rider http://www.patriotguard.org/ 98' T Black & Chrome 69' Buick GS 400 Conv. " Never ride faster than your angel can fly" "Ask the American Indians what happens when you don't control immigration"
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dukey33 |
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I think this is #5 on the list of all-time great debates.
#1 - auto vs m/c oil #2 - synthetic vs dino oil #3 - loud pipes save lives #4 - chain lube vs wax #5 - dyna beads vs lead balance weights #6 - nitrogen vs air #7 - car tires yep, there it is...#5.
but seriously, I've heard some folks use them and find they are the cat's meow. Many heavy truck fleets use them and it works for them. Motorcycle Consumer News tried it and they didn't think it worked for them. I think they'd work well enough solely from a pure physics standpoint. You just have to be sure to have enough beads in there to do the job.
duke
loud horns save lives |
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West Tn Dawg |
The new Wing I bought,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, | #2 | ||
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has them. The guy I bought the Wing from said he didn't want to mar the custom wheels, so he installed the beads. He siad they were only $10 and worth a
shot. He says he had the Wing up to 120 mph and I have ran it up to 110 mph and it is smooth as silk!!!! I would give them a shot if I were you!
Later Rick
The "BIKE" is why we came, The "PEOPLE" is why we stay!
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alepel |
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Someone has got to explain this to me. I did a google search on Dyna Beads and I got the distributors website. I read what there was to read about this method of wheel balancing and nowhere did I find the explanation of how these beads know how to position themselves to counterweigh the wheel. I understand centrifical force but I do not understand how the beads find the opposite side of the tire to counterweigh the wheel. Does anyone get this or is this another case of 'deer whistles'?
alepel
"Ride with the Spirit always, and in all ways"....hombldr |
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West Tn Dawg |
Well........... | #4 | ||
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I don't know how it works, but it works!
Rick
The "BIKE" is why we came, The "PEOPLE" is why we stay!
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ragtop69gs |
#5 | |||
alepel wrote: Try this Alepel This invention relates to an improvement in a method of balancing tires using a free flowing material within a tire casing and in the composition of said material. Most tire and rim assemblies require balancing to prevent vibration within the vehicle while it is in motion. One currently popular, method of balancing tire and rim assemblies involves rotation of the assembly on a computerized balancing machine to determine the location and size of weights necessary to obtain balanced rotation. Lead weights of the determined size are then clamped to the assembly at the indicated points to complete the balancing procedure. There are other similar "fixed weight" systems known for tire balancing. Some disadvantages of this type of system are that tire balancing equipment is expensive, tire balancing requires a skilled operator and is time consuming, and tires must be rebalanced at regular intervals due to effects of varying tread wear. Continuous self balancing systems overcome many of the disadvantages of the above fixed weight systems. Continuous self balancing systems use the principle that free flowing materials contained in a vessel in rotation will seek a distribution in balance about the centre of rotation and will tend to offset, by mass damping, any imbalance inherent in the vessel. The effectiveness of a dynamic balancing system is dependent in part on the ease with which balancing material can move within the vessel to positions which offset points of imbalance. In one application of this principle an annular ring is placed circumferentially about a rim and partially filled with heavy materials that will flow under the influence of centrifugal force. One such balancer uses mobile weights such as ball bearings which are free to roll to any point on the ring. The effectiveness of this method is limited by the roundness of the ball bearings, the concentricity of the ring to the geometric axis and the inherent rolling resistance of the balls in the ring. Liquids have been attempted in self balancing systems to improve the mobility of the balancing material. U.S. Pat. No. 2,687,918 to Bell discloses an annular robe attached to a tire rim partially filled with mercury for continuous balancing of the tire and rim assembly. Several disadvantages exist for this method, the principal ones being high cost and toxicity of mercury, the difficulty of ensuring concentricity of the annular robe and the need for special rims. The use of free flowing powdered materials in balancing compensators was taught in U.S. Pat. No. 4,109,549, in which an annular tube was filled with other dense materials such as powdered tungsten. A different means for applying the self balancing principle was disclosed in U.S. Pat. No. 5,073,217 to Fogal. A free flowing balancing powder was placed directly within a pneumatic tire, instead of within a concentric annular tube. Pulverent polymeric/copolymeric synthetic plastic material in the range of 8-12 screen size and 40-200 screen size were disclosed. The patent taught that the powder within the tire would distribute within the tire under centrifugal forces to dampen vibration. Placing the balancing media within the tire has two primary advantages. The balancing force is positioned close to the point of imbalance and extraneous annular rings are not required. The disadvantage of Fogal is that powdered products produced from a grinder or pulverizer tend to have particles with an irregular shape which increases resistance or friction to fluidity. It is unlikely that heavy liquids, such as mercury, could be substituted advantageously in Fogal's application, however, both because of above mentioned safety reasons and because such liquids may be incompatible with or corrosive to the composition of a tire. It is an object of the present invention to provide a method of tire balancing using an improved solid particulate material within a tire casing to obtain better fluidity for more efficient balancing of a tire and rim assembly. The present invention uses the known principle of balancing through mass damping and the known method of using a solid materials within a pneumatic tire to obtain a dynamic balance while the wheel is in rotation. The improvement of this invention lies primarily in the composition of the mixture of the balancing material. The mixture comprises small, dense beads and larger, less dense beads. Beads of a substantially rounded shaped reduce friction and improve the mobility of the material during balancing. The small, dense beads may be formed of atomized metallic particles which form during atomization as tiny balls. Corrosion resistant metal such as bronze, brass, zinc, tin, copper, stainless steel, nickel or silver or alloys of same may be used. Selection may be made after consideration of factors such as cost, availability and suitability for forming into small rounded shapes. In preferred embodiments the metallic component is selected from bronze, brass or zinc and atomized to form tiny balls, hereafter called "micro-spheres". The micro-spheres have round surfaces which permit them to roll over each other with less friction than sharp edged particles. The metallic micro-spheres have the greatest density (about 5-9 gr/cm3) of the materials in the mixture so that they are urged to the outside of the other materials during rotation. The small size of the micro-spheres enables them to filter through the other materials during rotation. The interior circumference of a tire is usually riddled with small pockets and ridges produced during the tire moulding process. These surface defects cause erratic movement of the balancing media and reduce its effectiveness. During rotation the micro-spheres are forced against the tire casing to fill in imperfections or voids on the tire wall to form a smooth lining which allows the remaining balancing media to move about the tire casing with less impediment. The excess of the micro-spheres, after voids and ridges are levelled, act as part of the balancing material and move to offset points of imbalance. The larger, less dense beads are also rounded and may be formed from glass, ceramics, alumina, corderite, porcelain or titanates. These beads function as the primary balancing material and form the largest portion by weight of the mixture. Glass spheres or beads of density 2-3 gr/cm3 are preferred. The glass beads are larger but less dense than the metallic micro-spheres. Thus the glass beads tend to ride over the metallic micro-spheres to move easily to points of imbalance to dampen vibrational energy. The glass beads are more durable than thermoplastic particles of Fogal and less prone to degradation. The mixture may also include a partitioning agent, such as vermiculite, mica or other monoclinic non-reactive crystalline minerals, to separate and lubricate the mixture to enable all components of the mixture to maintain free-flowing characteristics. Vermiculite is preferred. A suitable desiccant, such as silica gel, Al2O3, CaCl2 or CaSO4 may be added to the mixture to prevent agglomeration in the presence of moisture. Silica Gel is preferred as a desiccant to maintain a dry atmosphere in the tire casing. The small particles used in this type of balancing system tend to be hydroscopic and may agglomerate in the presence of moisture. Agglomerated particles will cause a dramatic reduction in balancing efficiency. The silica gel tends to ameliorate this condition. A preferred mixture of this invention is as follows.
______________________________________
MATERIAL SIZE CONCENTRATION
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Non-ferrous atomized metal
80-325 mesh
10-25%
(e.g., bronze or brass)
Glass beads 20-40 mesh 40-80%
(Lead free-soda lime type)
Vermiculite 20-325 mesh
10-30%
Silica Gel 20-40 mesh 2-4%
______________________________________
It has been found that this invention will work effectively with any conventional multi-wheel vehicle tire and rim assembly. It will be appreciated, however, that the amount of material to balance a particular assembly will vary in quantity and proportion, according to the type of assembly and the size of the tire and rim assembly. Correct amounts and proportions may be determined empirically by persons skilled having the benefit of this disclosure and the current state of the art. To illustrate in general terms, a steering tire of a truck (11×24.5) may require about 400 grams while a truck driving tire may require 500 grams of the mixture. Automobile tires may require only 160 grams of the mixture but are much more sensitive to vibration than truck tires and therefore require more vehicle specific and careful measuring.
Jay
Patriot Guard Rider http://www.patriotguard.org/ 98' T Black & Chrome 69' Buick GS 400 Conv. " Never ride faster than your angel can fly" "Ask the American Indians what happens when you don't control immigration"
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alepel |
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Thus the glass beads tend to ride over the metallic micro-spheres to move easily to points of imbalance to dampen vibrational energy. Thanks Jay for the write-up. I still think I left wondering how the beads find the points of imbalance. The whole article does not explain how the beads "find" the point of imbalance. I appreciate your efforts however.
alepel
"Ride with the Spirit always, and in all ways"....hombldr |
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ragtop69gs |
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Here you go this is from Dyna Beads Tech support.
Subject: Tire Beads Paul was telling us about tire beads, free moving weights inside a tire that continuously seek the location which counterweights a tire imbalance. I wondered why they helped as opposed to making matters worse. So here goes. First I want to frame the question. Wide low profile tires and wheels entail three dimensional complications which we should leave out. Also, the beads are recognized as not solving "lateral imbalance". Also I think we should exclude out-of-round tires. So, if a tire is geometrically circular and properly centered in its axle but is out of balance so that a segment has greater mass than other geometrically equal segments, do the beads self-locate so as to correct the imbalance? Yes. The beads feel the so-called centrifugal force in the rotating tire and, if they can, they will role to the place farthest from the Axis of rotation (like rolling downhill). We have said, however, that the tire is properly round and centered, so, at first glance, we can see no preferred collection point for the beads. Each spot around the tire is equidistant from the axle. Now, if the axle was hard fixed in a bearing with no chance of movement that would end the discussion. The bearing would be forced to handle the imbalance and the beads would do nothing significant. But our vehicle has a suspension system and the axle moves as required. As the vehicle speeds up, the force of the imbalance increases. This is the tire's increasing preference to rotate around its own centre of mass, and, because the tire is out of balance, its centre of mass is not exactly at the centre of the axle. At sufficiently high speed, the axis of rotation moves away from the axle centre towards the centre of the rotating mass. Obviously, the centre of mass is on the heavy side of the wheel with respect to the centre of the axle. So we have our whole wheel and tire rotating around a spot that is slightly off the axle centre, and the part that is farthest away from the new axis of rotation is on the opposite side from the overweight sector. But this is precisely where the beads will roll... to the spot farthest from the axis of rotation. To repeat: it is because the centre of mass
becomes the axis of rotation that the points around the tire are no longer equidistant from the axis of rotation. So we have a positive result .
Jay
Patriot Guard Rider http://www.patriotguard.org/ 98' T Black & Chrome 69' Buick GS 400 Conv. " Never ride faster than your angel can fly" "Ask the American Indians what happens when you don't control immigration"
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alepel |
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There you go Jay....now you've satisfied my understanding. The graphics help too!
Thank you my friend for being persistent.
alepel
"Ride with the Spirit always, and in all ways"....hombldr |
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ragtop69gs |
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Forever your humble servant sir.
Jay
Patriot Guard Rider http://www.patriotguard.org/ 98' T Black & Chrome 69' Buick GS 400 Conv. " Never ride faster than your angel can fly" "Ask the American Indians what happens when you don't control immigration"
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alepel |
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ragtop69gs wrote: Really.....do you know any wenches?
alepel
"Ride with the Spirit always, and in all ways"....hombldr |
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ragtop69gs |
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I do have a few I dragged back to the cave. Slightly bruised and missing a small patch of hair from the top of their heads, otherwise undamaged. I'll
trade either one for grog or chrome goodies.
Jay
Patriot Guard Rider http://www.patriotguard.org/ 98' T Black & Chrome 69' Buick GS 400 Conv. " Never ride faster than your angel can fly" "Ask the American Indians what happens when you don't control immigration"
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ragtop69gs |
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After about 200 miles on the new E3, I'm happy to report that the Dyna Beads are doing an excellent job keeping the tire in balance. I think I will pull
the lead weight off the front and use them there too.
Jay
Patriot Guard Rider http://www.patriotguard.org/ 98' T Black & Chrome 69' Buick GS 400 Conv. " Never ride faster than your angel can fly" "Ask the American Indians what happens when you don't control immigration"
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Jimbo |
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Although I am new here I can tell you that we put these in the front tire on the wifes T and LOVE them.
No more fuggly looking stick on crap for balancing. It rides smooth as silk at speeds well above the limit posted She has over 1000 miles on the setup as of this past weekend with zero issues.
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Guns90 |
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Okay guys, its time for me to open my mouth and show you what a fool I am......
Do you remember when you were young and you showed something new to an old-timer, and no matter how well it worked, or how well you explained the new thing to him, he just wouldn't come around to accepting it and vowed to stay with the old way? As a younger person, I never could understand their reasoning. I just figured that they were stubborn, or comfortable in their ways, and wouldn't change. Damn! I'm an old-timer! This just seems like these beads are being done with smoke and mirrors to me. When I was young, I was introduced to the term 99 and 44/100's percent pure. It was said that something that pure was in fact considered pure. I thought that was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard. You are stating in black and white that 56/100's is in fact something else! How can it be PURE!!! These beads (to me, anyway) are falling in that same catagory! If you need to move the tire for a few seconds for these beads to 'place themselves' in position to balance the tire, then the tire is in fact moving while out of balance until that time when they 'find' the proper place to be. You're in fact paying for a benefit that you get only 'most' of the time. I really don't care that anyone see's that I bought a tire that neded to balanced with an ugly lead weight. I'm not that vain. I think that I'll stick with my lead weights and know that my tire is perfectly balanced all the time. I bet some of you guys really think I'm a real buttwhole, don't you?
Gary
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!!! What A Ride!!!" |
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dukey33 |
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The Dynabeads are a tough concept to swallow. You're not alone Gary.
But they do work. Almost everyone that has tried them (with the exception of MCN) has found positive results with them. You are correct that when you first start moving, the tire is not in balance. But consider that you're also not going fast enough yet for tire balance to matter. I've driven cars and trucks with unbalanced tires (no weights) and really don't notice any effect below 45mph. By that speed, Dynabeads are in place and doing their thing. Don't sweat it. Dynabeads are as controversial as auto vs mc oils, synth vs dino oil, air vs nitrogen, car tire vs mc tire, etc......
duke
loud horns save lives |
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Jimbo |
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Gary, I do understand exactly what you are saying. I too waited this long to get the report from those around me using these.
Most if not all had great results and even extended the tire life in a few cases. ( no cupping at all ). I only wanted to give my experience with this product so that someone who may not be sure or as the post started out "any one ever...." had some more info for there knowledge. I will not know about the tire life thing until next year sometime as it does not have that many miles yet. My Goldwing will be needing tires in the spring so I will test it out on that heavy bus next year. As of right now I get aprox. 16,0000 on a set of Metzlers each year before replacing. So it will be intresting to see how much more it will last. The great thing about it is no matter what.... IF it works for you and you are happy... It is a great product for you. Speed Safe...... |
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