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My Recent Posts · 06/30/09

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Ok, the last thread I posted, I just wanted opinions on using a tire changer. Now, for the sake of honest research, I want to see if anyone can find a real (or at the very least apparently real) story of something going wrong with a car tire on a motorcycle. The rules are 1. unless you have a story, don't post your opinion, we've heard all of the arguments, if you find one, you have the right to say whatever you want, but only if you find one and post it. 2. To post a story, copy and paste the text into the thread as well as a URL of the place where you found it on the internet. If you have personal stories I'll take your word for it, but please be honest. I'm not trying to start arguments, I actually want to find any verified negative information about car tires on a motorcycle. 3. It must be a story about a CRUISER motorcycle, not about a dummy who puts a car tire on a racebike and goes around the track and crashes. I agree that that is dumb and that sport bikes need motorcycle tires. If you find a story about a CT on a motorcyle and the failure is related to poor installation that could happen on a motorcycle tire, prepare to get some counter points. I think that's it. Thanks

My Recent Posts · 07/01/09

There are plenty of articles on the web that discuss the use of car tires on a motorcycle. You might want to also search the web for motorcycle tires, contact patch and Motorcycle Safety (MSF) contact path management.

Try this experiment. Pick two glasses out of your cupboard... one a straight cylinder and the other a tappered glass, such as a shot glass.

Put both on a flat counter and push them along. The straigh cylinder will go forward while the shot glass will turn either left or right, moving towards the smaller diameter of the glass.
These are the same concepts employed in car and bike tires. The same physics that causes the shot glass to move in a round route is what causes a motorcycle to turn as the rider leans the bike either left or right. With a rounded tire up front and a square tire on the rear, extra force will be required to get the bike into a turn, or the rider will have to slow down and use the handlebars to turn the bike, similar to the steering mechanics of a car.

Other things to take into consideration. Once a car tire is "on it's side", your are driving on a sidewall. Most car tires are not designed to be driven on their sidewall and the sidewall will begin to breakdown. Heat in a tire (motorcycle or auto) is generated in two ways... one is from the friction of the contact between the tire and the road; the other is from the flexing of the sidewall. Under inflating the car tire to improve the contact patch will expose the tire to heat related failure.

Also consider the tread design... a motorcycle tire tread is not very deep and is designed to remain stable while riding straight or in turns. A car tires tread is deeper and may shift when getting into a turn. You can visualize this by looking at a new car and motorcycle tire. With your thumb or finger, try to move the tread sideways on both tires. Even the slightest movement will give that 'riding on ice' or 'riding on stones' feeling.

My Recent Posts · 07/01/09

My neighbor put a car tire on his Valkyrie at my urging. That was over 40k ago, he got 35k out of his first Goodyear and hopes to get 40k out of his new tire. As for putting down rubber in a corner, the car tire wins hands down. I know it looks that way, but the car tire never gets over far enough to get on the sidewall and it puts more rubber down on the road in the turns to.
Tim who has an Valkyrie Tourer with an 215/?-16 car tire and my ACE Tourer with an 180/70-16 m/c tire did an experiment.
What we did was to wet a section of cement and road our bikes through the water and measured the width of the wet footprint that the tire left on the dry cement. His tire had almost twice the footprint in an turn than my Dunlop 180 E3, and that was in a sharp turn. With a less sharp of an turn his c/t put an even bigger footprint down and having 5+" on the road in most turns makes for a rear end that won't step out on you. Tim runs 30 to 34 psi in his rear tire so it gives a little to keep most of the tire on the ground even in the turns. As for heat(yes heat is the biggest cause of tire failures) the weight of the bike is no where close to that of a car so you don't run as much air pressure in the tire to compensate for the lack of weight of the bike. BYW I drove trucks for 25 years and I never had a tire fail due to heat(low air pressure). You also get better braking power and wet weather performance that no bike tire can compete with.
As for "something going wrong with a car tire on a motorcycle" good luck with that. If there was a news story about a car tire on a bike that caused a spill, it would have been all over the net by now.

ROD

My Recent Posts · 07/01/09

This guy rides in weather that would KILL me, and he found that a car tire works the best

http://alaskajack.smugmug.com/
http://alaskajack.smugmug.com/gallery/2477376_NLJ8o#P-1-20

Take a look at his pic's, this guy IS a biker.

ROD

My Recent Posts · 07/01/09

CleRider wrote:
Try this experiment. Pick two glasses out of your cupboard... one a straight cylinder and the other a tappered glass, such as a shot glass.

Well, if I ever put glass on for tires I'll make sure I get rounded glass. I think that might be more dangerous than using a car tire though. C'mon, rubber flexes and doesn't sit on a corner. Also, try this experiment. Take a ruler, and put it on across the top of your car tire. Take a picture and post it, showing how the ruler touches all the way across, because I don't think it will.

Also consider the tread design... a motorcycle tire tread is not very deep and is designed to remain stable while riding straight or in turns. A car tires tread is deeper and may shift when getting into a turn. You can visualize this by looking at a new car and motorcycle tire. With your thumb or finger, try to move the tread sideways on both tires. Even the slightest movement will give that 'riding on ice' or 'riding on stones' feeling.

Like I said before rubber flexes, as you pointed out. Try this experiment, take a chair, put some weight on it and tie a rope to one of the ends. Then pull it across your driveway. Then pull it across your lawn. Which way was harder to pull? I bet the soft grass had more traction on the chair than the hard concrete or asphalt. The softness of the tire gives you more traction, and the minuscule movement that you talk about will not be felt.

I could do this all day, bring me an actual story of someone who actually has ridden on a car tire, and we'll talk.

P.S. I can't see the earth curve around me either so from this day forward the earth is flat.

My Recent Posts · 07/01/09

You know, put the car tire on your bike. I don't really give a rats a$$. I was trying to convey some knowledge I obtained from many motorcycle safety classes that I attened and material I read from many advanced MSF books.

My Recent Posts · 07/01/09

I've heard all the same things. It also to says to wear neon color clothing, NEVER take one of your hands off of the handle bars, turn your petcocks off every time you turn off your bike, where full body protective gear and lots of things that people take with a grain of salt. I understand the basic theory. But no person knows everything and many ideas are false and just assumed to be true, when they're not (that's what I was getting at with the whole earth is flat thing). Because something seems to be some way, doesn't mean it is true and without careful observation and yes experimentation, you can't know what works better. That is why I am asking for first hand knowledge and experience with the situation, and so far, I've only heard good things about car tires from people who have actually put them on, and no one who says that they have done it and wanted to go back to the motorcycle tire. (and I've been looking, if I had found it I wouldn't be asking here) That's the people that I want to hear from it, because that's what I want to know. I want to change tire choice from a religion to a science, where people look at real, measured facts, not blind theories. I apologize for jumping down your throat, but I did warn you in my first post.

Anyone else have any stories of bad things actually happening with car tires on motorcycles? I do actually want to hear any that are out there.

My Recent Posts · 07/01/09

You can read up all you want about this subject below.............both pro's and con's. Some of these folks have well over 100k miles on a CT.

http://valkyrie-owners.com/SMFORUM/index.php?board=27.0

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31

Stan

My Recent Posts · 07/02/09

Here's the first story that I found of a car tire failing (wearing out actually) prematurely. 12,500 miles.

Default

CT failure

I read the CT threads from the beginning, at first doubting that they were "the answer." As the number of users and success stories began to accumulate I decided I would try one when I was ready for a new rear tire.

My main interest was the increase in tire mileage that many folks were getting, since I must travel 300 miles via interstate just to get to the good twisties I enjoy so much. "Why spend all those miles wearing out a MT if the CT will give me better mileage?" I thought.

The Conti runflat was installed on April 12, 2008. I was pleased with the tire. As the miles accumulated I paid close attention to the wear, looking forward to getting at least 20K out of it. I have gotten about 12K out of MT's.

I noticed the edges beginning to round off...."rounding off a flat tire (CT) as opposed to squaring off a round tire (MT)," as trialsman says.

I left home Friday noon on my way to the Smoky Mountain Ride In. I stopped for the night at Fancy Gap, VA. On Saturday morning I rode 160 miles via twisty roads to meet zaT111 and Jen at Bonnie and Clydes in Loafers Glory, NC, for lunch. This ride was at a comfortable 6-7 tenths pace.

I was sitting outside at a coffee shop in Bakersville when I noticed something on the rear tire. A closer inspection showed cords exposed on the right edge of the tire. The left edge was rounded, but there were no cords showing.

After lunch Bret, Jen and I started slowly toward Asheville. In our 50 mile excursion we found a few tire dealers (Bakersville, Spruce Pine and Burnsville), but they were all closed on Saturday afternoon.

We ended up at the Honda dealer in Asheville where I had an E-3 installed since I have an E-3 on the front.

The Conti had 12,500 miles on it when it came off. I maintained 30psi and checked the pressure before every ride.

Since I have a rear MT on the bike and two MT's (one new, one with about 2k miles on it) I'll be using MT's on the rear for the next 30K miles or so.

On Sunday Wayne (GL1800GSXR1000) and I rode a couple hundred miles of twisties. The new "round" tire felt better to me than the CT on these roads. After all, the MT is designed for a motorcycle.

I'm not suddenly against CT's on the Wing. I might try another in the future. I tried to be as objective as possible in this report. Hope it helps someone.

Photos below were taken at the dealer before the tire came off the bike.

__________________
Bob E.

My Recent Posts · 07/02/09

What brand and tire size can fit on the T's wheels and fender clearance?
Car tires would suit me fine. I hardly lean at all.

My Recent Posts · 07/02/09

Bob,

Why do you think you got so few miles with a car tire when others are saying they get so many? Do you think it has to do with how many twisties you ride?

It is funny that a CT rounds off as it wears and a MT squares off.

You mentioned you liked taking the turns more with a MT, does you Wing "flick" easier with MT?

My Recent Posts · 07/02/09

I forgot to add the link of where I found the story.

http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217756

Fredrider, you'll have to go the the Goldwing forum to ask Bob that question, I just reposted it here to show that I found something.

But it appears that this specific tire, which they no longer make.

My Recent Posts · 09/25/09

I have a friend who switched over to a c/t a few thousand miles ago. No issues, handling or otherwise and tire wear is excellent. He actually prefers it to a m/c tire. He rides a Kawasaki Vulcan.

Every time I see a c/t on a bike, I make a point to see how it works. So far 100% positive comments - no failures at all. All of the bikes have been Goldwings, or plain old cruisers like the T.

Mike

My Recent Posts · 09/25/09

Here is a guy with a FJR that went to the dark side(and if you read the whole post more people with FJR's are going to the dark side)
http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=112537

So if they can run a car tire on a FJR(with 140+ hp) we can run one to with our 50 to 60 hp..

ROD

Author	Comment
vaultingrules	Crash and Burn challenge.		Lead	[-]
HSATF Tail Gunner Posts: 102 06/30/09 9:03 PM	Tags : None Ok, the last thread I posted, I just wanted opinions on using a tire changer. Now, for the sake of honest research, I want to see if anyone can find a real (or at the very least apparently real) story of something going wrong with a car tire on a motorcycle. The rules are 1. unless you have a story, don't post your opinion, we've heard all of the arguments, if you find one, you have the right to say whatever you want, but only if you find one and post it. 2. To post a story, copy and paste the text into the thread as well as a URL of the place where you found it on the internet. If you have personal stories I'll take your word for it, but please be honest. I'm not trying to start arguments, I actually want to find any verified negative information about car tires on a motorcycle. 3. It must be a story about a CRUISER motorcycle, not about a dummy who puts a car tire on a racebike and goes around the track and crashes. I agree that that is dumb and that sport bikes need motorcycle tires. If you find a story about a CT on a motorcyle and the failure is related to poor installation that could happen on a motorcycle tire, prepare to get some counter points. I think that's it. Thanks
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CleRider	Why do you want to put a car tire on a motorcycle?	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2032 07/01/09 8:05 AM	There are plenty of articles on the web that discuss the use of car tires on a motorcycle. You might want to also search the web for motorcycle tires, contact patch and Motorcycle Safety (MSF) contact path management. Try this experiment. Pick two glasses out of your cupboard... one a straight cylinder and the other a tappered glass, such as a shot glass. Put both on a flat counter and push them along. The straigh cylinder will go forward while the shot glass will turn either left or right, moving towards the smaller diameter of the glass. These are the same concepts employed in car and bike tires. The same physics that causes the shot glass to move in a round route is what causes a motorcycle to turn as the rider leans the bike either left or right. With a rounded tire up front and a square tire on the rear, extra force will be required to get the bike into a turn, or the rider will have to slow down and use the handlebars to turn the bike, similar to the steering mechanics of a car. Other things to take into consideration. Once a car tire is "on it's side", your are driving on a sidewall. Most car tires are not designed to be driven on their sidewall and the sidewall will begin to breakdown. Heat in a tire (motorcycle or auto) is generated in two ways... one is from the friction of the contact between the tire and the road; the other is from the flexing of the sidewall. Under inflating the car tire to improve the contact patch will expose the tire to heat related failure. Also consider the tread design... a motorcycle tire tread is not very deep and is designed to remain stable while riding straight or in turns. A car tires tread is deeper and may shift when getting into a turn. You can visualize this by looking at a new car and motorcycle tire. With your thumb or finger, try to move the tread sideways on both tires. Even the slightest movement will give that 'riding on ice' or 'riding on stones' feeling.
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rod rounds		#2	[url]	[-]
HSATF Road Captain Posts: 364 07/01/09 1:49 PM	My neighbor put a car tire on his Valkyrie at my urging. That was over 40k ago, he got 35k out of his first Goodyear and hopes to get 40k out of his new tire. As for putting down rubber in a corner, the car tire wins hands down. I know it looks that way, but the car tire never gets over far enough to get on the sidewall and it puts more rubber down on the road in the turns to. Tim who has an Valkyrie Tourer with an 215/?-16 car tire and my ACE Tourer with an 180/70-16 m/c tire did an experiment. What we did was to wet a section of cement and road our bikes through the water and measured the width of the wet footprint that the tire left on the dry cement. His tire had almost twice the footprint in an turn than my Dunlop 180 E3, and that was in a sharp turn. With a less sharp of an turn his c/t put an even bigger footprint down and having 5+" on the road in most turns makes for a rear end that won't step out on you. Tim runs 30 to 34 psi in his rear tire so it gives a little to keep most of the tire on the ground even in the turns. As for heat(yes heat is the biggest cause of tire failures) the weight of the bike is no where close to that of a car so you don't run as much air pressure in the tire to compensate for the lack of weight of the bike. BYW I drove trucks for 25 years and I never had a tire fail due to heat(low air pressure). You also get better braking power and wet weather performance that no bike tire can compete with. As for "something going wrong with a car tire on a motorcycle" good luck with that. If there was a news story about a car tire on a bike that caused a spill, it would have been all over the net by now. ROD So many roads so little time ! Last Edited By: rod rounds 07/01/09 1:56 PM. Edited 1 time.
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rod rounds		#3	[url]	[-]
HSATF Road Captain Posts: 364 07/01/09 2:02 PM	This guy rides in weather that would KILL me, and he found that a car tire works the best http://alaskajack.smugmug.com/ http://alaskajack.smugmug.com/gallery/2477376_NLJ8o#P-1-20 Take a look at his pic's, this guy IS a biker. ROD So many roads so little time !
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vaultingrules		#4	[url]	[-]
HSATF Tail Gunner Posts: 102 07/01/09 2:14 PM	CleRider wrote: Try this experiment. Pick two glasses out of your cupboard... one a straight cylinder and the other a tappered glass, such as a shot glass. Well, if I ever put glass on for tires I'll make sure I get rounded glass. I think that might be more dangerous than using a car tire though. C'mon, rubber flexes and doesn't sit on a corner. Also, try this experiment. Take a ruler, and put it on across the top of your car tire. Take a picture and post it, showing how the ruler touches all the way across, because I don't think it will. Also consider the tread design... a motorcycle tire tread is not very deep and is designed to remain stable while riding straight or in turns. A car tires tread is deeper and may shift when getting into a turn. You can visualize this by looking at a new car and motorcycle tire. With your thumb or finger, try to move the tread sideways on both tires. Even the slightest movement will give that 'riding on ice' or 'riding on stones' feeling. Like I said before rubber flexes, as you pointed out. Try this experiment, take a chair, put some weight on it and tie a rope to one of the ends. Then pull it across your driveway. Then pull it across your lawn. Which way was harder to pull? I bet the soft grass had more traction on the chair than the hard concrete or asphalt. The softness of the tire gives you more traction, and the minuscule movement that you talk about will not be felt. I could do this all day, bring me an actual story of someone who actually has ridden on a car tire, and we'll talk. P.S. I can't see the earth curve around me either so from this day forward the earth is flat.
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CleRider		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2032 07/01/09 5:28 PM	You know, put the car tire on your bike. I don't really give a rats a$$. I was trying to convey some knowledge I obtained from many motorcycle safety classes that I attened and material I read from many advanced MSF books.
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vaultingrules		#6	[url]	[-]
HSATF Tail Gunner Posts: 102 07/01/09 8:40 PM	I've heard all the same things. It also to says to wear neon color clothing, NEVER take one of your hands off of the handle bars, turn your petcocks off every time you turn off your bike, where full body protective gear and lots of things that people take with a grain of salt. I understand the basic theory. But no person knows everything and many ideas are false and just assumed to be true, when they're not (that's what I was getting at with the whole earth is flat thing). Because something seems to be some way, doesn't mean it is true and without careful observation and yes experimentation, you can't know what works better. That is why I am asking for first hand knowledge and experience with the situation, and so far, I've only heard good things about car tires from people who have actually put them on, and no one who says that they have done it and wanted to go back to the motorcycle tire. (and I've been looking, if I had found it I wouldn't be asking here) That's the people that I want to hear from it, because that's what I want to know. I want to change tire choice from a religion to a science, where people look at real, measured facts, not blind theories. I apologize for jumping down your throat, but I did warn you in my first post. Anyone else have any stories of bad things actually happening with car tires on motorcycles? I do actually want to hear any that are out there.
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bamaTrider		#7	[url]	[-]
HSATF 1st Officer Posts: 5040 07/01/09 10:44 PM	You can read up all you want about this subject below.............both pro's and con's. Some of these folks have well over 100k miles on a CT. http://valkyrie-owners.com/SMFORUM/index.php?board=27.0 http://gl1800riders.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=31 Stan Current love; 2004 GL1800 Goldwing (Titanium) Past love; 1999 Ace Tourer (Silver over Black)
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vaultingrules		#8	[url]	[-]
HSATF Tail Gunner Posts: 102 07/02/09 6:29 AM	Here's the first story that I found of a car tire failing (wearing out actually) prematurely. 12,500 miles. CT failure I read the CT threads from the beginning, at first doubting that they were "the answer." As the number of users and success stories began to accumulate I decided I would try one when I was ready for a new rear tire. My main interest was the increase in tire mileage that many folks were getting, since I must travel 300 miles via interstate just to get to the good twisties I enjoy so much. "Why spend all those miles wearing out a MT if the CT will give me better mileage?" I thought. The Conti runflat was installed on April 12, 2008. I was pleased with the tire. As the miles accumulated I paid close attention to the wear, looking forward to getting at least 20K out of it. I have gotten about 12K out of MT's. I noticed the edges beginning to round off...."rounding off a flat tire (CT) as opposed to squaring off a round tire (MT)," as trialsman says. I left home Friday noon on my way to the Smoky Mountain Ride In. I stopped for the night at Fancy Gap, VA. On Saturday morning I rode 160 miles via twisty roads to meet zaT111 and Jen at Bonnie and Clydes in Loafers Glory, NC, for lunch. This ride was at a comfortable 6-7 tenths pace. I was sitting outside at a coffee shop in Bakersville when I noticed something on the rear tire. A closer inspection showed cords exposed on the right edge of the tire. The left edge was rounded, but there were no cords showing. After lunch Bret, Jen and I started slowly toward Asheville. In our 50 mile excursion we found a few tire dealers (Bakersville, Spruce Pine and Burnsville), but they were all closed on Saturday afternoon. We ended up at the Honda dealer in Asheville where I had an E-3 installed since I have an E-3 on the front. The Conti had 12,500 miles on it when it came off. I maintained 30psi and checked the pressure before every ride. Since I have a rear MT on the bike and two MT's (one new, one with about 2k miles on it) I'll be using MT's on the rear for the next 30K miles or so. On Sunday Wayne (GL1800GSXR1000) and I rode a couple hundred miles of twisties. The new "round" tire felt better to me than the CT on these roads. After all, the MT is designed for a motorcycle. I'm not suddenly against CT's on the Wing. I might try another in the future. I tried to be as objective as possible in this report. Hope it helps someone. Photos below were taken at the dealer before the tire came off the bike. __________________ Bob E.
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Pupule Rider		#9	[url]	[-]
HSATF Tail Gunner Posts: 99 07/02/09 8:49 AM Tail Gunner	What brand and tire size can fit on the T's wheels and fender clearance? Car tires would suit me fine. I hardly lean at all.
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Fredrider		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7580 07/02/09 11:07 AM	Bob, Why do you think you got so few miles with a car tire when others are saying they get so many? Do you think it has to do with how many twisties you ride? It is funny that a CT rounds off as it wears and a MT squares off. You mentioned you liked taking the turns more with a MT, does you Wing "flick" easier with MT?
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vaultingrules		#11	[url]	[-]
HSATF Tail Gunner Posts: 102 07/02/09 2:16 PM	I forgot to add the link of where I found the story. http://gl1800riders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217756 Fredrider, you'll have to go the the Goldwing forum to ask Bob that question, I just reposted it here to show that I found something. But it appears that this specific tire, which they no longer make.
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mike2000t		#12	[url]	[-]
HSATF Road Captain Posts: 374 09/25/09 8:59 AM Second Officer	I have a friend who switched over to a c/t a few thousand miles ago. No issues, handling or otherwise and tire wear is excellent. He actually prefers it to a m/c tire. He rides a Kawasaki Vulcan. Every time I see a c/t on a bike, I make a point to see how it works. So far 100% positive comments - no failures at all. All of the bikes have been Goldwings, or plain old cruisers like the T. Mike
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rod rounds		#13	[url]	[-]
HSATF Road Captain Posts: 364 09/25/09 12:06 PM	Here is a guy with a FJR that went to the dark side(and if you read the whole post more people with FJR's are going to the dark side) http://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=112537 So if they can run a car tire on a FJR(with 140+ hp) we can run one to with our 50 to 60 hp.. ROD So many roads so little time ! Last Edited By: rod rounds 09/25/09 12:18 PM. Edited 1 time.
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